Teaching: Part Time Job At Full Pay Wages????
Posted Wednesday, July 2nd, 2008 by JoelView blog reactions
Tags: General
Print This Article
del.icio.us StumbleUpon Technorati
Print This Article
I have been holding my tongue on this issue for over a month, but I thought I’d jump in and respond while I have time and am thinking about it.
@J Frap recently left a comment on my article 9 Reasons To Quit Teaching (And 10 Reasons To Stick) that got under my skin.
You should also add “part time job at full pay wages”. Thats a huge benefit, how about you take one year off from teaching and work in the real world, where you would make less money, only receive one week paid vacation, you wouldn’t be given ‘planning days’ every other week, and you would have to work on most holidays.
I think if teachers were forced to do this, they would run back to taching and thank God they have the opportunity to teach.
This obviously got other people going! As only he can, Mr. Teacher writes:
Mr. Frap,
In the words of Theodore Roosevelt, “You sir, are an idiot.”
I worked in the “real world” for 4 years before I entered teaching, and so I know the ins and outs of both careers. To call teaching a “part-time job” and to say that we get planning days every other week just shows a lack of knowledge on your part.
Sure, there are pros and cons to both career paths, but in my experience, I find that teaching is a MUCH more time-consuming, stressful, physically draining job than my old corporate job. Aside from the summer vacation, I got most of the same holidays off that I do now, I got a relaxed, 1 hour+ lunch every day, and I wasn’t on my feet, in the spotlight, being watched all the time, every day.
For all the people who think teaching is just an 8 to 3 job, with 3 months paid vacation, I would invite YOU to try truly teaching for a year. And then to rip off your eloquent ending, Mr. Frap (if that truly IS your real name), you would run back to your job in the “real world” and thank God that you didn’t have to be a teacher.
Hallelujah — holy crap. Where’s the Tylenol?
Wow. I want to address some of his ideas here.
I think you miss the point when you say that teachers have the opportunity to teach. Pretty much everyone has the opportunity to teach. Just as some people sacrifice years of their life to have the opportunity to litigate or operate, teachers sacrifice time to have the opportunity to teach.
Full pay wages?
There are trade-offs, of course. I make far less money than a surgeon does, or an advertising exec, or whatever. But I also get the advantage, as you point out, of having a bit of down time that many other career paths don’t have. Am I complaining about the money? Not at all. I get paid just fine.
Part time job?
Unfortunately, the “part time job” doesn’t really hold true. Lets do some math, shall we?
The math
Most teachers in Texas work 187 contract days. I will assume that someone with a “full time job” works 5 days a week 50 weeks a year. That’s something like 250 8-hour days or 2,000 hours.
As a band director, I am on a 202-day contract. I normally work from 7am to 5pm on normal school days.
I also work somewhere around 12 Saturdays throughout the year with football games, marching contests, region meetings, solo & ensemble contests, all region auditions, band trips (babysitting 100+kids at an amusement park is not a vacation), and whatever else. These are not contract days. The Saturday gigs tend to be longer and AVERAGE out to around 12 hours each.
We also have concerts, Friday football games, band booster club meetings, PTA meetings, Open House, etc. Those average more than 4 hours of my time 15 times a year.
10 hours X 202 days = 2020 hours
12 hours X 12 days = 144 hours
4 hours X 15 days = 60 hours
TOTAL = 2,224 hours
So the band director math works out. Now let’s look at classroom teachers. Keep in mind I’m not an expert, but I’ll go based on observations.
Many classroom teachers don’t come early to let kids practice or stay after school doing sectionals or anything like that. So we’ll say they are there from 7:30 to 4:00. They do grade homework, make tests, and write lesson plans. That constitutes somewhere around 3 hours a day somewhere around 150 days a year. They also have the PTA, Open House, etc. commitments somewhere around 8 times a year.
8.5 hours X 187 days = 1,589.5 hours
3 hours X 150 days = 450
4 hours X 8 days = 32 hours
TOTAL = 2,071.5 hours
So at the very minimum, teaching is comparable to any 40-hour per week job in the number of hours worked, it just happens to be crammed into 9 and a half months rather than the luxurious 12 month schedule that most employers utilize.
And for those of us who are teachers. Enjoy the summer vacation. And spring break. And 3 day weekends. And all the other perks. Speaking of 3 day weekends, these numbers assumed that all of the “full time job” people out there don’t get any holidays or days off other than two weeks vacation a year.
Help organize So You Want To Teach? by adding tags. Tags for this article: General
[?]
Type in a relevant tag, and click the button, and help organize this blog's information.
[More Help]
[More Help]
del.icio.us StumbleUpon Technorati
- Earn a degree in elementary education from an accredited school online.
Comments
Betty writes:
You did an excellent job responding to Mr. Frap. He also irritated me by his comments. Teaching is a full time plus job and requires more than eight hours a day. In order to spend quality time with my own children, I tried to leave school at a reasonable hour and usually worked on school work late into every evening after my kids went to bed. I also did a lot of school work on the weekends and planned lessons during the summer. There will always be those Mr. Fraps out there, but they really don’t have any idea what it’s like to teach. I loved teaching, but if you compared my hours to my husband’s business hours, I was the one who devoted more time to my job.
teacherninja writes:
You nailed it, Joel. In my district, we only get two months off in the summer and are still expected to do some in service hours (which makes vacation planning fun). I’m not complaining, but we NEED that time to recover and prepare for the next year. Nobody works harder than teachers do, no matter what they do.
strangenewteacher writes:
Wow. I’m glad I didn’t see the original post. That really grinds my gears. Mr. Frap is, unfortunately, only one of the many people out there who is incredibly ignorant to education and a teacher’s career. I try to ignore people like him, but one can only take so much.
Mr. frap obviously didn’t take a few things into consideration:
1. My “planning” time is filled with faculty meetings, department meetings, SST meetings, cirriculum meetings, grade level meetings, and any other professional development my administraion deems important. I do all of my planning on my own dime.
2. For the 08-09 school year, I will arrive at school at around 7 AM and leave at about 6:00PM every day. I will have a 25 minute lunch, but I will still be working as I will have lunch duty. When I get home from school (and on weekends) I will have papers to grade and materials to create for an upcoming unit. I don’t get paid overtime for that.
3. I do not recieve pay for my summer “vacation.” I get paid for 190 contractual days, but it is spread out over the 12 months.
4. My “vacation” is chock full of professional development workshops, cirriculum meetings, and planning for the next year (I get a $50 stipend for 2 workshops). The time that I do have to myself over the summer is spent reflecting on my previous preformance and coming up with ways to make the next year run more smoothly (again, I don’t get overtime for this).
5. This year, I will spend roughly $250-$300 out of my own pocket to furnish materials and supplies to my own classroom. I get a tax write-off, but not for the whole thing. I won’t get reimbursed for the money I spend. I don’t get a company car.
6. I will spend each day every day in front of 110 hormonal 12 year olds. I will be a counselor, mediator, entertainer, facilitator, coach, police officer, mother figure, and teacher over the course of every day. I will undoubtedly catch every form of the cold, flu, and stomach virus that floats the the halls of my school. I will break up fights, get yelled at by kids I don’t know, get threatend by parents, and sometimes be underminded by my employer. I won’t get hazard pay.
I entered the profession aware of all of this, so I am not complaining. There is no other job that is more important than that of a teacher, and there is no other job I would accept after working so hard to get here. I didn’t become a teacher for the money. If I wanted money, I would have been stupid to even consider education as a career. I would have persued a business degree. I became a teacher because I wanted to do something important with my life. I am satisfied.
Perhaps Mr. Frap should read the post on my blog entitled “An Open Letter to Ms. Horrible” before he accuses teachers of not living in the “Real World.”
Sorry I stole your post, Joel. You and Mister Teacher nailed it on the head like the masters you are, but I had have some input, too.
Mister Teacher writes:
Yep, that guy was an idiot.
Interesting timing here Joel, my Mr. Teacher column for next week on education.com is going to address this very topic.
Linda Sturr writes:
Mr. Frap
Holy cow! Some one is an idiot! I spend my summers thinking, planning and creating new activities to make my class interesting. I never teach the same way two years in a row. How boring. You called this a vacation? I have to drive 30 miles one way to get to my classroom to do this. What other profession calls for the employee to buy things out of their own pocket in order to have a decent classroom? What other profession requires you to spend $60 every 6 years to have your fingerprints done AGAIN??? Don’t they already have them? I don’t even understand the process of re-certifying. I have the degrees (yes, plural) and all the inservices, endorsements and extra college classes, why do I need to prove I am still teaching?
What about dealing with angry parents who got the story wrong from their child? The student who refuses to do any work in class? The teacher who is absent all the time and leaves no lesson plans and so You have to come up with them. What about all the discipline problems we have to ignore or put up with because the Office is too busy or the boss is out. The list goes on. And this is with 30 - 40 kids at a time. (Forty-three the year before last)
I agree with Joel, you need to teach a year in our shoes.
Mr. Maestro writes:
Unfortunately, we’ve all run into this argument. This is the way I’ve always explained it: Teaching is like being a news anchor. If you said “Hey, that news guy is way over-paid… he only works for one hour a day,” people would be quick to point out that the rest of their day is spent collecting, reviewing and editing the news stories. Most of the job is, in fact, off-camera.
Teachers on-camera time is during class… the planning and grading is all off-camera. The difference between us and a news anchor, however, is that while a news persons spends most of the day off-camera preparing for an hour of on-camera… we spend most of our contract day on-camera, leaving us very little time to do off-camera stuff. The only way to get it done, in fact, is to use time outside of our contract work day.
It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that any teacher who only worked their contract hours would be woefully unprepared, and would probably get so far behind in their grading that there would be very little, if any, feedback.
It’s been almost two weeks since school got out. Since then I’ve been in to my office on most weekdays, spending about the same amount of time I would have on a regular school day. No, I’m not getting paid. We all know it’s the only way to do the job right.
lhuff writes:
@Joel: You forgot professional development. We Arkansas teachers have an additional 60 hours (generally ten six hour sessions–not including travel time)required professional development every year–more than ANY other licensed professional.
Jonathan writes:
With holidays (let’s say 10, although I think it’s often as high as 13 for public workers and as low as 6 in the private sector), and vacation (I’m using 12 days, though I know there’s lots that are 10 days, and fewer that are 20 or more, figure 12 is a reasonable average) we get about 235 days. We work 180 - 190, or about 80% as many days. Except many of us work summer, our planning time goes into our weekends and evenings….
Gina Marie writes:
Maybe the larger issue here is that Mr. Frap will probably not return to read this, and that is a reflection of all the “Mr. Frap”s out there. The swoop in with their ignorant and pretentious comments, and then leave, before any honest discourse can take place. Shame on you, Mr. Frap.
For the record, I just finished my first year, and in 10 months I destroyed any degree of personal life I had — it put a MAJOR strain on my relationship with my fiance and my friend. I NEVER saw them. And one of them lives 2 miles away from me.
Yes, I am on summer “vacation” right now. I am sitting in a bookstore writing up lesson plans for next year. Trying to contemplate classroom management. Reflecting on the good, bad, and ugly of my first year teaching.
I’d like to be gardening. But if I don’t plan NOW, I’ll be stressed in September. AND I am trying to plan a wedding for October.
In short — I might quit teaching. Before I ever got started….
Author Comment
Joel writes:
Wow! Lots of discussion coming in on this topic. Feel free to link to this article and send more visitors over to add to the conversation. I want to answer a few specific comments and then jump into some more general things.
@teacherninja - I agree with a lot of what you said there, but your statement “Nobody works harder than teachers do, no matter what they do” is probably just a tad overboard. I agree with the sentiment, but I think specifically of most people in the medical industry, many of whom are constantly on call or work 60 hour weeks. Granted they are paid better than most teachers, but they definitely work as hard or harder than us teacher folk do.
Be that as it may, I want to reiterate that I agree with the sentiment that teachers are, by and large, a hard-working bunch.
@Mister Teacher - I shall look forward to reading your article. Feel free to post the URL in the comments section here when it comes out!
@Gina Marie - I’m sorry it has been such a strain on you. Not to be shamelessly self-promoting this blog or anything, but might I recommend Questions That Will Save Your Career and 25 Tips For Less Stress for your reading. Also, let me know if there are any specifics that I might be able to help you out with.
Oh yeah, I think All Work And No Play Makes Joel A Dull Boy applies directly to where you are right now. Maybe…
On a broader context, I see that this article has resonated with a lot of my readers. We are obviously very passionate about what we do! I was glad to see Jonathan chime. I was actually thinking of you when I was writing this and it made me nervous in case I screwed something up! Ha.
We have 187 contract days in Texas, but those include about 10 days or so of professional development, so I didn’t include it. If I counted the district-sponsored staff development as well as the two conventions a year that I attend, it would obviously be many more hours. I was going for the bare minimum.
Hearing from all of these teachers who spend their summers at the office and doing planning, I’d like to hear from those of you who teach summer school. How do you make it work?
Tracy Rosen writes:
Well-written response to someone, like many others, who does not know the big picture, the behind-the-scenes stuff, of a teacher’s life.
Don’t remember the last vacation I had where I wasn’t either correcting or planning :)
Kimberly Herbert writes:
I’m not a band director or a coach, but I still put in time before and after school. I teach technology on a k-5 campus. My morning schedule
6:30 - 7:00 Set up time (I set up my equipment and deliver equipment to classrooms)
7:00 - 7:30 Open lab time I supervise 25 students working on computers, 10 - 15 students setting up the “TV station” for announcements
7:30 - 3:30 contract time but students dismissed starting around 2:30.
Other teachers have afternoon duty from 2:30 - 3:00 supervising students as they leave campus.
I have Open Lab from 2:30 - 3:30 then I walk students home and wait for the pick up kids to be picked up.
I spend as good deal of time “off the clock” researching technology and looking for ideas.
m writes:
Here’s my article addressing this very topic. Check it out and see if you don’t agree:
http://www.education.com/magaz.....ythstakes/
Dawn writes:
I have to admit I used to have similar thoughts about teachers being part-time workers. Then I started homeschooling the kids. My hours doing that are much less then a teachers but I stated to see all the things that have to go on behind that bit of sit down time everyone sees. The planning, the research, the organization…Hats off to you!
Bea writes:
Thank you Joel and strangenewteacher
You guys hit the nail on the head. Mr. Frap should spend some time in a classroom at an alternative school with children who were put out of public and/or private schools because of behavioral issues. As you probably can tell by now, I’m a special ed teacher, middle school (hormones, behavior and whatever else comes with the territory).
I just wanted to add that I have held all the titles strangenewteacher quoted, but I do want to add to Joel’s comment about the hours. Add on summer school hours for those of us who are obligated to teach summer school, 4 weeks of lost vacation time with my own family, just 3-4 weeks left in between.
I really don’t mind because I chose to go into this field with the mind to make an impact and difference; not sit around complaining about it like Mr. Frap. If he thinks it’s hand over fist and doesn’t like the way it’s run, I invite him to join us and help make a change.
Mr. Frap, don’t complain about the problem if you’re not going to offer your help to try and make at least some “repairs.” Teachers can never get paid enough for what we have to deal with everyday. I’ve had experiences where students have come to school with guns, knives, other weapons and had to be arrested. When working in schools, this is just ONE OF THE FEW worries teachers have to worry about. So, if you would like to face some of these obstacles and hardships, come on and join us. There’s always room for teachers who care.
Author Comment
Joel writes:
@Dawn - I’m glad homeschooling has helped to open your eyes to a little bit of more understanding. The fact that you’re reading edublogs tells me it has impacted your life in some other ways too! Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
@Bea - I honestly cannot imagine doing your job and having summer school on top of that. My mom works with developmentally and behaviorally challenged kids and I just wouldn’t be able to do that. But then again, I wouldn’t be able to teach 3rd graders like Mr. Teacher does. And I’m sure most of you wouldn’t be able to teach middle school band, so it all evens out in the end somehow!
Jenna writes:
This is my summer schedule ->
Last day of school: 6/20
Weeklong workshop: 6/23-6/27
Preparing for summer school: 6/30 - 7/3
Summer School: 7/7 to 8/1
Vacation: 8/2 - 8/16 (two weeks)
Preparing Classroom/Curriculum: 8/17-8/23 (hopefully the copier is still working, since there are no services until 8/24)
Reading Workshop: 8/25 to 8/27
Department Workshops 8/28
School Meeting: 8/29
School Starts: 9/2
I had more time off when working in the corporate world and could afford to actually take trips to other locations. This year my vacation will be “camping” at my parents house.
Tammy writes:
Well done. I’m going to print out these numbers to show the next “friend” who mutters about my “Cushy” job.
Pat writes:
I loved your math! One time I figured in the phone calls I make and recieve, plus summer time professional development, planning and preparation for the upcoming school year, I actually lost money somewhere in the deal. Of course, most teachers don’t do this for the money or they would be in a different profession.
Dr Saxe writes:
I have always thought that teachers are over worked and under paid, much the same as are police officers. To know that you have made a difference in some one’s life is a great reward, but the best and favorite reward is cash money, some things never change.
Respectfully,
Dr Saxe
Todd Benetar writes:
I know several teachers that work very hard during the school year. I would not want their jobs. However, it is very nice that when school is cancelled due to unsafe road conditions that they don’t have to brave the treacherous roads and can stay home. Most folks that work in other jobs don’t have that benefit!
Jeannine writes:
Nice psoting…and I’m an orchestra teacher and feel your pain. We often end up with double of classroom teachers. I was dead tired when I did my student teaching and leave replacements after I graduated. And I did retail for 11 years (thru HS and college) until I got my MSEd, I know the pains of both jobs. I can not wait to have summers off. (String jobs are hard to get this year!! ugh).
C Gaub writes:
Thanks for so many great articles…
Outside of our(WA State) 180 student days, we have to include the extra professional development that most of us do during vacations. Either in summer courses, or online, or hours after school and saturdays. In addition to take courses I also teach them, and attend and present at local and national conferences. All pretty much the minimum to renew our state license every 5 years.
Although I seem to remember having 3 months off in the summer when I WENT to school, our summer is a short 8 weeks. Thankfully it does seem to be just enough to recharge. Afterall, here it is only August and I am already making plans for this years classes.
Janet Pfaff writes:
I just found this article and had to comment. I teach in an elementary school and most teachers are there from 8:00 (or earlier) until 5:00 or later If I leave at 4:00, I’ll just have to come in earlier the next day. And you did not add in any of the hours we work at home, grading and writing lesson plans.
I do not get 3 months off-just over 2.And not really all that because we have to go in early to set up our rooms, since our 4 teacher days before the kids start are all meetings. Friends of mine (that have been working as long as I have)in the business world get 12 weeks and they can take it at any time of year. They also can go to the bathroom whenever they need to during the day and leave early or go in late because of appointments.
DeanofStudents writes:
In the real world, those only working minimal wage or maybe are community bankers work an 8 to 5 schedule. All the professionals, I know work six days per week, 10 hours per day (minimum) x 50 weeks = 3,000 hours per year. And for those who work great jobs, with the big money they are usually at their desk for 15 hours x 6 days a week x 51 weeks (no holidays) = 4,590 hours. Yep, for the average professional teaching is a part time job. Oh, by the way to keep my job, I have am required to read hours of research, just all my other friends each night!
casper writes:
To love teaching or to stay in it you first must get a teaching job. I have tried for 8 months to land a job in east tennessee. I have a MEd and BS in math physics and highly qualified in chemistry. I quit my real job because I was told/ or looked on web sites that there was a teacher shortage even more for math and science. So unless you are a good old boy, Grew up in that district good luck.
pam writes:
I have been a sub teacher many many times and have never thought teaching was a easy job or doubted for a minute that there were many many hours of planning, grading and etc. But to make the comment that teachers work harder than anybody is a bit much. I’m in the nursing field and work numerous hours and days. Have to be at work rain, sleet, ice or snow nursing is a 24 hour field without us people would be in trouble. I also home school and plan my teens school days at home so therefore I don’t see how that comment can be made. Now I will agree that with so many kids in one class, and with all the threats that seem to be going on, and dealing with parents that teaching is stressfull and dangerous, but the hardest well that is just not true.
Author Comment
Joel writes:
pam: I hope you didn’t come away from the article with the impression that I think teaching is the hardest or most taxing job. Far from it. In fact, I think teaching is actually a pretty cushy job. The thing is, I also don’t believe that it should be classified as a part-time job either.