Teaching: Part Time Job At Full Pay Wages????

Joel Wagner (@sywtt) began teaching band in 2002. Though he had a lot of information, his classes were out of control. He found himself tired, frustrated, disrespected by students, lonely, and on the brink of quitting. He had had enough. He resigned from his school district right before spring break of his second year and made it his personal mission to learn to be a great teacher. So You Want To Teach? is the ongoing story of that quest for educational excellence.

I have been holding my tongue on this issue for over a month, but I thought I’d jump in and respond while I have time and am thinking about it.

J Frap recently left a comment on my article 9 Reasons To Quit Teaching (And 10 Reasons To Stick) that got under my skin.

You should also add “part time job at full pay wages”. Thats a huge benefit, how about you take one year off from teaching and work in the real world, where you would make less money, only receive one week paid vacation, you wouldn’t be given ‘planning days’ every other week, and you would have to work on most holidays.

I think if teachers were forced to do this, they would run back to taching and thank God they have the opportunity to teach.

This obviously got other people going! As only he can, Mr. Teacher writes:

Mr. Frap,
In the words of Theodore Roosevelt, “You sir, are an idiot.”
I worked in the “real world” for 4 years before I entered teaching, and so I know the ins and outs of both careers. To call teaching a “part-time job” and to say that we get planning days every other week just shows a lack of knowledge on your part.
Sure, there are pros and cons to both career paths, but in my experience, I find that teaching is a MUCH more time-consuming, stressful, physically draining job than my old corporate job. Aside from the summer vacation, I got most of the same holidays off that I do now, I got a relaxed, 1 hour+ lunch every day, and I wasn’t on my feet, in the spotlight, being watched all the time, every day.
For all the people who think teaching is just an 8 to 3 job, with 3 months paid vacation, I would invite YOU to try truly teaching for a year. And then to rip off your eloquent ending, Mr. Frap (if that truly IS your real name), you would run back to your job in the “real world” and thank God that you didn’t have to be a teacher.
Hallelujah — holy crap. Where’s the Tylenol?

Wow. I want to address some of his ideas here.

I think you miss the point when you say that teachers have the opportunity to teach. Pretty much everyone has the opportunity to teach. Just as some people sacrifice years of their life to have the opportunity to litigate or operate, teachers sacrifice time to have the opportunity to teach.

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Full pay wages?
There are trade-offs, of course. I make far less money than a surgeon does, or an advertising exec, or whatever. But I also get the advantage, as you point out, of having a bit of down time that many other career paths don’t have. Am I complaining about the money? Not at all. I get paid just fine.

Part time job?
Unfortunately, the “part time job” doesn’t really hold true. Lets do some math, shall we?

The math
Most teachers in Texas work 187 contract days. I will assume that someone with a “full time job” works 5 days a week 50 weeks a year. That’s something like 250 8-hour days or 2,000 hours.

As a band director, I am on a 202-day contract. I normally work from 7am to 5pm on normal school days.

I also work somewhere around 12 Saturdays throughout the year with football games, marching contests, region meetings, solo & ensemble contests, all region auditions, band trips (babysitting 100+kids at an amusement park is not a vacation), and whatever else. These are not contract days. The Saturday gigs tend to be longer and AVERAGE out to around 12 hours each.

We also have concerts, Friday football games, band booster club meetings, PTA meetings, Open House, etc. Those average more than 4 hours of my time 15 times a year.

10 hours X 202 days = 2020 hours
12 hours X 12 days = 144 hours
4 hours X 15 days = 60 hours
TOTAL = 2,224 hours

So the band director math works out. Now let’s look at classroom teachers. Keep in mind I’m not an expert, but I’ll go based on observations.

Many classroom teachers don’t come early to let kids practice or stay after school doing sectionals or anything like that. So we’ll say they are there from 7:30 to 4:00. They do grade homework, make tests, and write lesson plans. That constitutes somewhere around 3 hours a day somewhere around 150 days a year. They also have the PTA, Open House, etc. commitments somewhere around 8 times a year.

8.5 hours X 187 days = 1,589.5 hours
3 hours X 150 days = 450
4 hours X 8 days = 32 hours
TOTAL = 2,071.5 hours

So at the very minimum, teaching is comparable to any 40-hour per week job in the number of hours worked, it just happens to be crammed into 9 and a half months rather than the luxurious 12 month schedule that most employers utilize.

And for those of us who are teachers. Enjoy the summer vacation. And spring break. And 3 day weekends. And all the other perks. Speaking of 3 day weekends, these numbers assumed that all of the “full time job” people out there don’t get any holidays or days off other than two weeks vacation a year.

35 Comments on Teaching: Part Time Job At Full Pay Wages????

  1. You nailed it, Joel. In my district, we only get two months off in the summer and are still expected to do some in service hours (which makes vacation planning fun). I’m not complaining, but we NEED that time to recover and prepare for the next year. Nobody works harder than teachers do, no matter what they do.

  2. Wow. I’m glad I didn’t see the original post. That really grinds my gears. Mr. Frap is, unfortunately, only one of the many people out there who is incredibly ignorant to education and a teacher’s career. I try to ignore people like him, but one can only take so much.

    Mr. frap obviously didn’t take a few things into consideration:

    1. My “planning” time is filled with faculty meetings, department meetings, SST meetings, cirriculum meetings, grade level meetings, and any other professional development my administraion deems important. I do all of my planning on my own dime.
    2. For the 08-09 school year, I will arrive at school at around 7 AM and leave at about 6:00PM every day. I will have a 25 minute lunch, but I will still be working as I will have lunch duty. When I get home from school (and on weekends) I will have papers to grade and materials to create for an upcoming unit. I don’t get paid overtime for that.
    3. I do not recieve pay for my summer “vacation.” I get paid for 190 contractual days, but it is spread out over the 12 months.
    4. My “vacation” is chock full of professional development workshops, cirriculum meetings, and planning for the next year (I get a $50 stipend for 2 workshops). The time that I do have to myself over the summer is spent reflecting on my previous preformance and coming up with ways to make the next year run more smoothly (again, I don’t get overtime for this).
    5. This year, I will spend roughly $250-$300 out of my own pocket to furnish materials and supplies to my own classroom. I get a tax write-off, but not for the whole thing. I won’t get reimbursed for the money I spend. I don’t get a company car.
    6. I will spend each day every day in front of 110 hormonal 12 year olds. I will be a counselor, mediator, entertainer, facilitator, coach, police officer, mother figure, and teacher over the course of every day. I will undoubtedly catch every form of the cold, flu, and stomach virus that floats the the halls of my school. I will break up fights, get yelled at by kids I don’t know, get threatend by parents, and sometimes be underminded by my employer. I won’t get hazard pay.

    I entered the profession aware of all of this, so I am not complaining. There is no other job that is more important than that of a teacher, and there is no other job I would accept after working so hard to get here. I didn’t become a teacher for the money. If I wanted money, I would have been stupid to even consider education as a career. I would have persued a business degree. I became a teacher because I wanted to do something important with my life. I am satisfied.

    Perhaps Mr. Frap should read the post on my blog entitled “An Open Letter to Ms. Horrible” before he accuses teachers of not living in the “Real World.”

    Sorry I stole your post, Joel. You and Mister Teacher nailed it on the head like the masters you are, but I had have some input, too.

  3. Mr. Frap
    Holy cow! Some one is an idiot! I spend my summers thinking, planning and creating new activities to make my class interesting. I never teach the same way two years in a row. How boring. You called this a vacation? I have to drive 30 miles one way to get to my classroom to do this. What other profession calls for the employee to buy things out of their own pocket in order to have a decent classroom? What other profession requires you to spend $60 every 6 years to have your fingerprints done AGAIN??? Don’t they already have them? I don’t even understand the process of re-certifying. I have the degrees (yes, plural) and all the inservices, endorsements and extra college classes, why do I need to prove I am still teaching?
    What about dealing with angry parents who got the story wrong from their child? The student who refuses to do any work in class? The teacher who is absent all the time and leaves no lesson plans and so You have to come up with them. What about all the discipline problems we have to ignore or put up with because the Office is too busy or the boss is out. The list goes on. And this is with 30 – 40 kids at a time. (Forty-three the year before last)
    I agree with Joel, you need to teach a year in our shoes.

  4. Unfortunately, we’ve all run into this argument. This is the way I’ve always explained it: Teaching is like being a news anchor. If you said “Hey, that news guy is way over-paid… he only works for one hour a day,” people would be quick to point out that the rest of their day is spent collecting, reviewing and editing the news stories. Most of the job is, in fact, off-camera.

    Teachers on-camera time is during class… the planning and grading is all off-camera. The difference between us and a news anchor, however, is that while a news persons spends most of the day off-camera preparing for an hour of on-camera… we spend most of our contract day on-camera, leaving us very little time to do off-camera stuff. The only way to get it done, in fact, is to use time outside of our contract work day.

    It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that any teacher who only worked their contract hours would be woefully unprepared, and would probably get so far behind in their grading that there would be very little, if any, feedback.

    It’s been almost two weeks since school got out. Since then I’ve been in to my office on most weekdays, spending about the same amount of time I would have on a regular school day. No, I’m not getting paid. We all know it’s the only way to do the job right.

  5. @Joel: You forgot professional development. We Arkansas teachers have an additional 60 hours (generally ten six hour sessions–not including travel time)required professional development every year–more than ANY other licensed professional.

  6. With holidays (let’s say 10, although I think it’s often as high as 13 for public workers and as low as 6 in the private sector), and vacation (I’m using 12 days, though I know there’s lots that are 10 days, and fewer that are 20 or more, figure 12 is a reasonable average) we get about 235 days. We work 180 – 190, or about 80% as many days. Except many of us work summer, our planning time goes into our weekends and evenings….

  7. Maybe the larger issue here is that Mr. Frap will probably not return to read this, and that is a reflection of all the “Mr. Frap”s out there. The swoop in with their ignorant and pretentious comments, and then leave, before any honest discourse can take place. Shame on you, Mr. Frap.

    For the record, I just finished my first year, and in 10 months I destroyed any degree of personal life I had — it put a MAJOR strain on my relationship with my fiance and my friend. I NEVER saw them. And one of them lives 2 miles away from me.

    Yes, I am on summer “vacation” right now. I am sitting in a bookstore writing up lesson plans for next year. Trying to contemplate classroom management. Reflecting on the good, bad, and ugly of my first year teaching.

    I’d like to be gardening. But if I don’t plan NOW, I’ll be stressed in September. AND I am trying to plan a wedding for October.

    In short — I might quit teaching. Before I ever got started….

  8. Wow! Lots of discussion coming in on this topic. Feel free to link to this article and send more visitors over to add to the conversation. I want to answer a few specific comments and then jump into some more general things.

    @teacherninja – I agree with a lot of what you said there, but your statement “Nobody works harder than teachers do, no matter what they do” is probably just a tad overboard. I agree with the sentiment, but I think specifically of most people in the medical industry, many of whom are constantly on call or work 60 hour weeks. Granted they are paid better than most teachers, but they definitely work as hard or harder than us teacher folk do.

    Be that as it may, I want to reiterate that I agree with the sentiment that teachers are, by and large, a hard-working bunch.

    @Mister Teacher – I shall look forward to reading your article. Feel free to post the URL in the comments section here when it comes out!

    @Gina Marie – I’m sorry it has been such a strain on you. Not to be shamelessly self-promoting this blog or anything, but might I recommend Questions That Will Save Your Career and 25 Tips For Less Stress for your reading. Also, let me know if there are any specifics that I might be able to help you out with.

    Oh yeah, I think All Work And No Play Makes Joel A Dull Boy applies directly to where you are right now. Maybe…

    On a broader context, I see that this article has resonated with a lot of my readers. We are obviously very passionate about what we do! I was glad to see Jonathan chime. I was actually thinking of you when I was writing this and it made me nervous in case I screwed something up! Ha.

    We have 187 contract days in Texas, but those include about 10 days or so of professional development, so I didn’t include it. If I counted the district-sponsored staff development as well as the two conventions a year that I attend, it would obviously be many more hours. I was going for the bare minimum.

    Hearing from all of these teachers who spend their summers at the office and doing planning, I’d like to hear from those of you who teach summer school. How do you make it work?

  9. Well-written response to someone, like many others, who does not know the big picture, the behind-the-scenes stuff, of a teacher’s life.

    Don’t remember the last vacation I had where I wasn’t either correcting or planning :)

  10. I’m not a band director or a coach, but I still put in time before and after school. I teach technology on a k-5 campus. My morning schedule

    6:30 – 7:00 Set up time (I set up my equipment and deliver equipment to classrooms)

    7:00 – 7:30 Open lab time I supervise 25 students working on computers, 10 – 15 students setting up the “TV station” for announcements

    7:30 – 3:30 contract time but students dismissed starting around 2:30.

    Other teachers have afternoon duty from 2:30 – 3:00 supervising students as they leave campus.

    I have Open Lab from 2:30 – 3:30 then I walk students home and wait for the pick up kids to be picked up.

    I spend as good deal of time “off the clock” researching technology and looking for ideas.

  11. I have to admit I used to have similar thoughts about teachers being part-time workers. Then I started homeschooling the kids. My hours doing that are much less then a teachers but I stated to see all the things that have to go on behind that bit of sit down time everyone sees. The planning, the research, the organization…Hats off to you!

  12. Thank you Joel and strangenewteacher

    You guys hit the nail on the head. Mr. Frap should spend some time in a classroom at an alternative school with children who were put out of public and/or private schools because of behavioral issues. As you probably can tell by now, I’m a special ed teacher, middle school (hormones, behavior and whatever else comes with the territory).

    I just wanted to add that I have held all the titles strangenewteacher quoted, but I do want to add to Joel’s comment about the hours. Add on summer school hours for those of us who are obligated to teach summer school, 4 weeks of lost vacation time with my own family, just 3-4 weeks left in between.

    I really don’t mind because I chose to go into this field with the mind to make an impact and difference; not sit around complaining about it like Mr. Frap. If he thinks it’s hand over fist and doesn’t like the way it’s run, I invite him to join us and help make a change.

    Mr. Frap, don’t complain about the problem if you’re not going to offer your help to try and make at least some “repairs.” Teachers can never get paid enough for what we have to deal with everyday. I’ve had experiences where students have come to school with guns, knives, other weapons and had to be arrested. When working in schools, this is just ONE OF THE FEW worries teachers have to worry about. So, if you would like to face some of these obstacles and hardships, come on and join us. There’s always room for teachers who care.

  13. @Dawn – I’m glad homeschooling has helped to open your eyes to a little bit of more understanding. The fact that you’re reading edublogs tells me it has impacted your life in some other ways too! Thanks for stopping by and commenting.

    @Bea – I honestly cannot imagine doing your job and having summer school on top of that. My mom works with developmentally and behaviorally challenged kids and I just wouldn’t be able to do that. But then again, I wouldn’t be able to teach 3rd graders like Mr. Teacher does. And I’m sure most of you wouldn’t be able to teach middle school band, so it all evens out in the end somehow!

  14. This is my summer schedule ->

    Last day of school: 6/20
    Weeklong workshop: 6/23-6/27
    Preparing for summer school: 6/30 – 7/3
    Summer School: 7/7 to 8/1
    Vacation: 8/2 – 8/16 (two weeks)
    Preparing Classroom/Curriculum: 8/17-8/23 (hopefully the copier is still working, since there are no services until 8/24)
    Reading Workshop: 8/25 to 8/27
    Department Workshops 8/28
    School Meeting: 8/29
    School Starts: 9/2

    I had more time off when working in the corporate world and could afford to actually take trips to other locations. This year my vacation will be “camping” at my parents house.

  15. I loved your math! One time I figured in the phone calls I make and recieve, plus summer time professional development, planning and preparation for the upcoming school year, I actually lost money somewhere in the deal. Of course, most teachers don’t do this for the money or they would be in a different profession.

  16. I have always thought that teachers are over worked and under paid, much the same as are police officers. To know that you have made a difference in some one’s life is a great reward, but the best and favorite reward is cash money, some things never change.
    Respectfully,
    Dr Saxe

  17. Nice psoting…and I’m an orchestra teacher and feel your pain. We often end up with double of classroom teachers. I was dead tired when I did my student teaching and leave replacements after I graduated. And I did retail for 11 years (thru HS and college) until I got my MSEd, I know the pains of both jobs. I can not wait to have summers off. (String jobs are hard to get this year!! ugh).

  18. I just found this article and had to comment. I teach in an elementary school and most teachers are there from 8:00 (or earlier) until 5:00 or later If I leave at 4:00, I’ll just have to come in earlier the next day. And you did not add in any of the hours we work at home, grading and writing lesson plans.
    I do not get 3 months off-just over 2.And not really all that because we have to go in early to set up our rooms, since our 4 teacher days before the kids start are all meetings. Friends of mine (that have been working as long as I have)in the business world get 12 weeks and they can take it at any time of year. They also can go to the bathroom whenever they need to during the day and leave early or go in late because of appointments.

  19. In the real world, those only working minimal wage or maybe are community bankers work an 8 to 5 schedule. All the professionals, I know work six days per week, 10 hours per day (minimum) x 50 weeks = 3,000 hours per year. And for those who work great jobs, with the big money they are usually at their desk for 15 hours x 6 days a week x 51 weeks (no holidays) = 4,590 hours. Yep, for the average professional teaching is a part time job. Oh, by the way to keep my job, I have am required to read hours of research, just all my other friends each night!

  20. To love teaching or to stay in it you first must get a teaching job. I have tried for 8 months to land a job in east tennessee. I have a MEd and BS in math physics and highly qualified in chemistry. I quit my real job because I was told/ or looked on web sites that there was a teacher shortage even more for math and science. So unless you are a good old boy, Grew up in that district good luck.

  21. I have been a sub teacher many many times and have never thought teaching was a easy job or doubted for a minute that there were many many hours of planning, grading and etc. But to make the comment that teachers work harder than anybody is a bit much. I’m in the nursing field and work numerous hours and days. Have to be at work rain, sleet, ice or snow nursing is a 24 hour field without us people would be in trouble. I also home school and plan my teens school days at home so therefore I don’t see how that comment can be made. Now I will agree that with so many kids in one class, and with all the threats that seem to be going on, and dealing with parents that teaching is stressfull and dangerous, but the hardest well that is just not true.

  22. pam: I hope you didn’t come away from the article with the impression that I think teaching is the hardest or most taxing job. Far from it. In fact, I think teaching is actually a pretty cushy job. The thing is, I also don’t believe that it should be classified as a part-time job either.

  23. Good ‘ol Mr. Frapp … hehehehe … Dude, your name rhymes with CRAP!! Coincidence? I think not :)

    Ah yes, for want of a “real” world job. Well, let’s see, I’ve been a Carpenter (8 years), Commercial Fisherman (2 years), Soldier (6 years), Legal Representative (5 years), Litigation Paralegal (10 years) … and … a Teacher. I “think” I might have a bit of experience in the real world. IMO, as a day in and day out profession teaching tends to be more demanding. For starters, teaching is the only profession I’ve been in where the standards and taskings are determined by people completely outside the profession. Just something about career politicians dictating what, when, how and where in the teaching profession that seems more than a little “off”. After all, these are the same miscreants that provided bad governance sufficient to collapse the USA economy. I suppose being a Carpenter comes closest to the lunacy imposed on teachers by morons and those without any expertise in the profession. Architects are notorious for drawing pretty pictures that require building in a way totally contrary to physical laws, such as gravity. Then again, the “Go away you fool.” solution could always be employed, namely, give controlling weight to the Engineer prints. Not so with teaching. NCLB is just the most incarnation of repeatedly failed social engineering orchestrated by career politicos. This has been going on since at least 1964 with no end in sight.

    Certainly the emotional involvement is far greater in teaching than anything I’ve been involved with in the past. A while back, a student of mine was waiting around my room after school had let out. Obviously, something was bothering her so I invited her to sit down and tell me whatever she felt like talking about. Turns out her drunkard Step-Father had been raping her on a regular basis for over a year and she couldn’t take the abuse any longer. I suppose I could have told her that in order to preserve my “full time pay for part time work” cushy job I couldn’t be bothered … but I didn’t. Instead, I stayed up most of the night answering questions posed by the police, Social Workers, and a Case Manager; all the while struggling to keep it together enough to be of some semblance of moral support for the poor Child, who was all of 15 years old at the time.

    Oh, then there was the rather quiet Boy in one of my classes who suddenly stopped coming to school. I pressed the issue after a couple of days as there was no response to Attendance Office calls and emails. The police eventually went to the house and sure enough, there he was, sitting in the middle of the living room with his Mother … who had been dead for a few days. Drug overdose, combination of booze, Oxycontin, Valium, and Methadone I was told … by the Boy. He knows he can talk to me any time he wants and has availed himself of my willing to listen ears on several occasions now… even if it does screw up my part time status. “Funny”, but I can’t seem to recall any of the other professions I have been a part of ever having a lot of spill over past normal business hours.

    As for the summer off … BORING. I can only hang out in Land of the Lotus Eaters for a week or two before I start to ping off the walls. I don’t know of any teacher that just chills for 2 1/2 months every summer. I know quite a few that deliver pizzas in order to make ends meet if they can’t get a Summer School teaching position. I know of some others that hang Sheet Rock or moon light as a Bartender. I’m considering getting a pizza delivery gig myself … just to keep busy … and pay my bills. I can’t recall ever having to work in another job to live a decent life before … must be one of the unstated down sides to working the part time job known as School Teacher.

  24. Yeah, buddy, that’s me fer shure … They call me “MISTER Poignant” … my apologies to Sidney Poitier. I think the Frappster is just a Troll out to stir things up for grins and giggles. On the other hand, it is a common enough misperception that someone could have actually bought into it and decided to spank a few teachers. Dude done stuck his face in a Hornet’s Nest I do believe :)

  25. Yeah, I figure he pretty much was a troll, but it was a valid point that we all too often hear at least in part. It provided me a chance to really dig deeper and come to my own understanding of the validity (or invalidity) of his arguments.

  26. There are several “real jobs” that read nice on paper, however, the reality of the matter is quite something else. It’s easy to look at something from the outside and conclude (wrongfully) “Gee, he/she/they have got it made; what a gravy job.”

    I can’t believe “I’m a-goin ta do dis” … but since we’re on the subject … how about this: Both the A.P.A. and A.M.A. have come out publicly and made the assertion that teaching is not a “true” profession because the academic curriculum that produces teachers lacks sufficient rigor. *Ducks and runs for cover*

  27. I would love to see the people that think teaching is easy come do it for a day! I think they would have a different opinion then.

    I love what I do but some days it is exhausting!

  28. Michelle writes: “I would love to see the people that think teaching is easy come do it for a day! I think they would have a different opinion then.”

    You are obviously a far kinder and gentle person than I. I want to line up all those who think teaching is just shy of a scam and have them independently staff classrooms with a nice mix of special needs students of the Autistic or ADD/ADHD variety during High Stakes Testing Week.

  29. Debra writes: “I wanted to know how many hours needed to teach middle school. or sub. for any level of education. I am now headed back to the field of teaching and have lost information on credits that’s needed. Please if possible, if you can help me with this issue I would greatly appreciate it.”

    For substituting it’s pretty much school system dependent. A High School diploma and willingness to work with Children meets the criteria in all the Counties in Maryland.

    For teaching, and I’m interpreting your request in terms of certification, COMAR specifies a minimum of 15 credits in the core content and a total of 30 credits all total including allied studies. For instance, if you want to teach Chemistry you would need 15 credits in Chemistry and then another 15 credits in a science such Biology. Then you need between 5 – 6 courses in pedagogy, instructional theory, etc., along with passing PRAXIS I & II.

    All you have to do is call one of your local Community Colleges or University and speak with someone in the Student Advisor Department. You might want to pursue an “Alternative Certification” program. Seems quite a few Community Colleges have such a program that pre-supposes a person has a BA/BS Degree.

    Hope this helps … and … “Welcome to the Life.” Damn how I love that Stone Cold G stuff

  30. Sure it’s tiring, but we also need to remember that it is not the only tiring job in the world. It is not the only demanding job in the world. My cousin is studying to be a neurosurgeon. I can’t imagine doing that. Not only is the personal responsibility immense, but there are also hospital politics and other such things that come into play. In addition to the interpersonal conflicts we all experience.

    I would challenge all of you who haven’t done so, to also go over and read Nobody Works Harder Than Teachers! You Sure About That?.

  31. Joel: I would also definitely agree with you here. I am a future teacher and at times post like this make me a little discouraged, so thank you for the reminder that it’s not the only tiring job out there! Even if it is slightly more tiring than an ordinary job i would have to say that a day as a teacher probably makes someone so much happier on a daily basis than anywhere else. It is about the students, we are making such an impact on them and that keeps me positive. And I don’t know about anyone else but kids make me smile and laugh, and this job gives so much room to have a great time every day!

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